Stop Kidding Yourself: Managing Your Salespeople

Charles Forsgard

VP of Global Sales at Honeywell

Learning Objectives

When you talk to your sellers about CRM, do you use the word "logging" or do you use the word "planning?" Does your CRM serve your sellers, or do your sellers serve your CRM? Most company's focus on CRM is on managers seeing data and being able to report on it up the chain. What we should focus on is how to use CRM to better enable our sellers. With a few simple changes to your approach, you can flip the story and have the tool help make the seller more effective - using the data from the tool to help the sellers pinpoint for themselves where to best invest their time & improve their performance.

Key Takeaways:

  • How to change their fundamental approach to CRM and start enabling their sellers

  • How to use the right data from the CRM to enhance performance

  • How predictive analytics can bring a new dimension to how you think about the deals in your pipeline

"One of the most important things that I've learned about coaching is the phrase 'ask, don't tell'. "

Charles Forsgard

VP of Global Sales at Honeywell


Hi, my name is Charles Forsgard. I’m the Vice President of Global Sales for the sensing business here at Honeywell. I’d like thank you for taking the time to watch this. There’s a topic that I’m very passionate about, which is how do we use the tools that we have is managed, particularly our CRM tool, to actually enable our salespeople instead of just measuring. I think that if you take a look at a new approach, where you can use the tool you’ve already got, and measurements that you’re already using, but using in a different way your salespeople will find much more encouraging.

It’s interesting to me the first time that I saw a CRM, which was I was enthralled with it because, for me, the vision that I got from it was that it was something that could really enable me as a salesperson. Honestly, I still feel today, if I’d had that tool 30 years ago, I wouldn’t be working today, I’d be sitting on a beach somewhere that I own. Yet despite that, that’s not really the feeling that most salespeople have. Most salespeople that I see with CRM, they absolutely hate it. If I told a typical salesperson that I was going to take their CRM away tomorrow, they’d probably buy me a drink. That’s a little bit scary when you consider the fact that according to Gartner, in 2018, businesses spent over $48 billion on CRM—pretty scary number when you consider the fact that most of the users absolutely hate the tool. That’s it. It’s just something that really disturbs you. You have to think about why is that? The reason why is actually got a lot to do with us, as the sales leaders, and how we think about and talk about that tool with ourselves. I think what I want to do here is give you a little bit of an instructional video.

That’s an interesting video probably called salesman—they put up on YouTube. I found it’s kind of the best summary of how people think about CRM. I’m sure that as you watch it, you’re laughing as much as I did the first time I saw. It’s funny because it’s true. It’s also sad because it’s true. This is really what kills CRM says. Sellers don’t want to use it, because the relationship that they have with the tool, and yes, you have a relationship with a tool, that’s very one way. It’s all the seller giving to the tool, the tool never really gives to the seller. That’s a very interesting thing that comes from the way that Salesforce and the other CRM companies sell the product, and we’re all salespeople.

Let’s think of the people that are going to pay for this—management and leadership. The people they’re selling to, what do they care about? Well, they want to be able to see their reports. When they go out and sell, they’re talking about, “Hey, you’ll have complete visibility your pipeline, you’ll be able to see all these things, measure all these things,” but the message that doesn’t really get through is and it’ll also enable your sales people to better manage the deals and better get things done. Tthat’s really what leads to a lot of the problems that we run into. You got to think about where did your CRM come from? How did your CRM get this done? Was it designed by a salesman? Was it designed by the operations? Was it designed by marketing? Was it everybody above that, and some big committee that designed the CRM that you have and did it evolve over time?

Let me ask you a question: When you look at that system, how much of it was designed by the sales? It’s kind of a scary thought, because I often find, it’s very [inaudible] in that regard. If you really want to try to figure it out yourself, go count the fields that you got inside of your tool. I’ll tell you something about what that does.

When you when you think about those kind of numbers, it’s a bit frightening because it goes against what you’re really trying to accomplish with enabling the sales compliance. We’ve since redesigned the system, and we’ve made some pretty big changes. I can tell you right off the bat most important number 68 fields for opportunity, now we have 25 fields for oppotunity, and there’s only 2 of them that are actually mandatory fields.

When I came into my current position in Honeywell back in 2017, there’s really scary numbers that I saw. The first thing was that every opportunity had 68 fields, and a whole ton of those were mandatory fields. There were 351 different sales data stored, now there weren’t 51 sales stages in use, but over time, they changed the words of what they were going to use so many times, that the system has all of those different sales stages stored inside. There were over 2300 global reports stored for people to go pick up—it’s 2300, it’s like we have none. The problem would build on itself because people keep inventing a new report that already existed because it was ridiculous trying to crawl through all 2300 of those reports.

What you really got to think about when you think about your CRM is who’s serving whom. Are your sales people serving the CRM, because that’s typically how the sales people view it. What we really need to do is flip that narrative, we need to flip that narrative to be about the CRM serving the salespeople. There’s one really critical way to do that, and it’s actually something that’s very simple. It’s something that everybody that’s watching this video has an opportunity to do. It’s a simple thing that you do just based on the choice of the language that you use.

Normally, I’m giving this talk in front of a group. At this point, I’ve addressed the audience, and I’d say it to all of you, answer me very honestly. How many times, in the last week, when you talk to your people about CRM, have you used the word lie? Have you used report, record? These are words that the salespeople most typically hear. It’s what you heard in that video a minute ago. If the CRM doesn’t know about it, it doesn’t exist. I would invite you to think about it a different way, instead of using the word logging, use the word planning.

See, when you talk about logging, you’re sending a signal to your salespeople, that the tool is there to serve you, because logging means they’re doing it to report to you. If you’re using the word planning, it means it’s for them. It’s for the seller because that means, the seller is trying to plan things to do things better for themselves. That’s really what you want to have coming on. If you get nothing else out of this presentation, if you do nothing else, if you just stop saying “logging” and start saying “planning”, you might see a pretty dramatic change in how your salespeople are using and thinking about their CRM.

Now, the next thing that you would then need to think about is how you can reinvent that. I like this expressions, you’ll understand why in a second, “You got to reinvent the wheel.” Think about the way that you’re reporting. When you talk to your people about what’s going on, what are the numbers that you focus on the most? On a sales organization person, [inaudible] was revenue. How much sales has gone out the door that I booked this trip? They’re being a little more forward thinking, they’re gonna say, “What’s going on with my orders?” For taking them that I’m going to say what’s going on with the deals that I’ve won that are now going to lead to those orders.

Now, here’s the problem with those measurements—they are all very good measures, and they’re easy things to measure. First numbers that certainly our bosses come to us, but the problem is those are all logging measurements. The things that are done in half those numbers typically happen to one. If I’m trying to manage my Salesforce in real time, and the last number I want to look at, because impact is a long time ago. My sales team works with a particularly long sales cycle. It takes us about 30 days on average to win a deal. That’s another six months after that before I get an order for a dea, and then anywhere from four weeks to six months after that, before that product is built. That means that revenue line is a long time [inaudible] I started working on the deal.

We really want to think about is the leading [inaudible]. This starts with just what’s going on with my account. After the account plans, what’s going on with my sales calls, those visits on customers? That’s going to lead to the deals that are being created. I also want to make sure that I’m really working how those deals are being managed. All of those things are just absolutely critical to what’s going on with the salesperson’s process. What you really want to be doing is thinking about the front end of the thing because inevitably, when I have a revenue problem or an orders problem with a salesperson, all I do is walk backwards on this [inaudible], and the problem is laying somewhere in the [inaudible]. I’ll work it all the way back to the accountant but there’s no intelligent account playing that’s going on there. There’s no list of activities that a seller is going to go drop.

People say you can’t measure the account, well, when I think about an account plan, what really matters to me—no matter how many SWOT diagrams you do and org charts of the organization that you’re representing. If you do all those things for one specific reason, you’re doing them to come up with a list of activities that you’re going to do with the account. What I can measure on my sales people is how many activities do they have in their account? How are they doing on the assumption? That way, I can measure it in real time. It is very meaningful when I look at my sales team, and I can instantly tell where the sellers are thinking ahead of time. At least those sales visits, I mean, that is the place where the word logging gets used the most. Did your log your sales visits for the week? It’s the scariest number because the only thing that matters to sales teams is how well did you plan it, and then how did you follow up on it? Those are the two things that that we actually measure.

One story I tell all the time, and it’s one that cracked me up was going on sales visit in Milan, Italy [inaudible] team out there. We went to see this customer It was a very high level meeting with the President his chief engineer is cheaper operations. As we drove to that sales visit, all drive there we’re talking about the weather, we’re talking about the latest soccer scores in Europe, all these things that are going on just versus never saying the thing about this meeting that we’re about going in. Beforehand, I’ve looked into our CRM, and seeing there wasn’t a plan sitting there for me, but I was given the salesperson opportunity to tell me what is it we’re going to do and lay out a plan of action for this meeting with him, his Regional Director, and myself as a global sales going into some of the top executives this company. There have been virtually no prep. We got all the way to the apartment of the customer before I finally had to stop and say, “Hold it. What are we about to go do?” so we had a conversation and we went into the meeting. got through the meeting when we left I asked the salesperson you know why why didn’t we have a plan but why did I have to ask you for the plan and he looked at me and he said this guy next you know it’s just doesn’t fit my style and you know there’s moments when people kind of fire themselves that might have been what was going on there but fortunately it was it was completely alien to this person that they wanted to plan that critical customer and when they thought about everything wow this is a form for me to fill and they weren’t thinking about it as Do I have a plan for this very important thing that’s a pretty critical element in terms of that so on both the account plan and when he says that planning is very important and they are also things that you can measure in Salesforce you can measure you know when you have a checklist and the measure do you have that checklist for the sales visit and then after that sales is a measure of how many actions do you drive at the end of that sales visit because I you but I’ve personally never gone on a sales visit right and have at least five things that that promised to the customer. Did I use my CRM is a way big deal creations, it’s a pretty easy thing to measure, but it’s an important thing to measure because that’s how your pipeline built. But I get into deal management Measurement there is just how many actions Am I putting into the tool to drive my equipment. That’s, again, very, very critical that in terms of the sales, people using the tool to drive it forward again, for planning, think of the things advance. And if you do for those areas, as well, as leading indicators, you’re going to get the deal ones, you’re going to get the orders, you’re going to get the revenue. But the time to intervene is not when the revenue numbers wrong, the time to intervene is when we see that the salesperson has kind of rethink at some point. And all four of those things are the things that are in your CRM. And all four of those things are things that you’ve got good data in your CRM, not to go beat the salesperson in the head with a slide, but to help the salesperson recognize the gaps that they have in their approach. And that’s a pretty important thing for us to be able to do. And what this comes into is an arena i have i’ve always called it proactive sampling. And there’s a bunch of good books on proactive selling. But the idea is, how proactive are your sellers? Are? Did they just react to what the customer is doing? Are they driving the narrative? Are they driving the conversation with the customer. And it’s interesting, because this is something you can measure with those very measurements we were just talking about a minute ago, on the sales wheel. And it’s funny, because I’ve looked at these numbers, three different times, three different fortune 100 companies that I’ve worked at. And the data always ends up looking the same. If I look at the sales results that I get from the sellers, and I bought that against how proactive they are, which I can measure in any number of different ways. from looking at that data, I’m going to get a distribution that looks a little bit like this, and it looks the same no matter which sales group I look at. And it’s kind of funny, because you notice a couple of things right off the bat with this chart is that there’s definitely a correlation between the more productive you are, the better the sales results. There’s also actually people fall into three different groups here. The first group that I see here is that lower left hand quadrant, I’ve got people that are not corrective at all. And they have terrible sales results. And this is probably one of the tougher measures we got to think about because one of the things I’ve learned over 30 years of

sales and sales management is that the people that are there, there is no amount of coaching, there’s no amount of training, that’s going to change them because the degree to how proactive they are, is in their nature. It’s not from training. And so this is where you got to kind of have those adult conversations and say, Hey, whatever it is you want to do in life, you’re probably pretty good at what isn’t something because you’re not wired as a scholar, and I happen to be a proponent of the nature versus nurture. The key elements you need to be a salesperson is something that you’re born with. And then you can become better than in training and coaching experience to become a top person. But if you don’t have those core core attributes about yourself, you’re not going to succeed, you’re really setting yourself up for a life of disappointment. And I think it’s obligatory for every manager to really look at the salespeople or team and say is that a salesperson, or just somebody that’s just there as a transactor of business. That’s something that can lead to a tough conversation, but I’m telling you, most sales managers spend the bulk of their time with that population people. That’s not where they should spend it. Somebody should spend it on now I’ll tell you where people want to spend is the people in the upper right, these are our best friends, these are our greatest sales people. These are the people that are incredibly productive, and they always blow their numbers. Here’s the problem is, those people don’t want you. Same same time with them. Not necessarily a when they need you to help close a deal when they need you to get to that higher level at the customer, then they want you when they want to get a big bonus check. That’s when they want that recognition and love that they very much deserved. But your help isn’t going to necessarily make them a better salesperson. They’re always already very good. I think that one of the key things was to think about and for us to use this data to show us who they are, is to look at that group in the middle. I call this the muscular metal. Because these are the people that count the right moves, they’ve got the right attitude about being proactive, but they need some help. They need some coaching, that’s going to move them into that upper right quadrant. And all those people have the ability to be that person. So when you think about this, you go to drive this practice selling mentality with your salespeople. There’s a group of people that you probably wasted time spent a lot of time with, you got to have some tough decisions and tough conversations. But that other group that group in the middle, that’s where you can really use the data to figure out where you should spend your time. The most effective Reaching for Salesforce. That’s a big deal. The next thing that you can do though, is you can redesign how you use your CRM. Now this isn’t about changing your CRM, it’s really more about changing reviews. And I say that because you know, most of the arms out of the box can do exactly everything I’m talking about. In fact, in our current version, that my team is in Honeywell, it actually minimize the amount of change that we made to it. Because the amount of functionality is good enough, more importantly, the out of box functionality is simple. And simplicity should be your watchword. So a few years ago, I was at a meeting with a customer, one of my previous companies. And at that company, we sold control systems. And our chief technology officer was explaining something very revolutionary he was getting ready to do those control systems in his analyst until I had a bit of an epiphany as a

sales process is really just a control. So if we think about it, that way that helps you to operationalize some of these things. It helps you to take that combination of art and science that makes up sales. Because we all know there’s an art to it, there’s an art to help a customer, how empathetic are you how good a listener are you? How much how proactive are he was we just talked about, that’s where a lot of the art comes into it. But the science part comes in, when we’re talking about things that we just know from numbers are going to work, you know, this many sales isn’t your going to lead to this many deal creation, that’s gonna lead to that many wins and that much revenue. It’s really it’s almost a calculus, it’s going to apply the more macro that you get when you look at your sales. So when I look at using the CRM, I think about it like any control system, and a control system has three main things that it does, it sees what’s going on, it thinks, and then it decides to do something as a result. And when you get rid of talk in a minute about how bad is how you can use your CRM. And we’ll also talk about and this was what was part of this control system that we are introducing, you can introduce a fourth group, which is to a box, right, I mean, that fourth element, that element sits on top of the rest of what’s going on. And this is where as sales leaders, this is where we really step in, to make a difference with our coaching. So let’s talk about each of these things. in action. The first thing is, how easy do we make it for the salesperson to see where they’re at? So let’s say we take a salesperson named Fred Taylor here and we say, all right, well, Fred has a quarter this quarter, seven, or $50,000, they first gotta read probably knows that number. But how good a plan does Fred have for how he’s going to get to that number? He might not know what kind of plan he needs, because he can’t see where he actually is today. So however, you have your CRM set up, you want to give Brett a very clear visibility of where he’s at. Now this is this the way you do it. There’s a lot of ways that you can do it. You start off by saying, okay, what’s my for? Where am I guaranteed to get to and you know, that’s typically either the deals that I’ve already closed, or the deals I’ve already closed plus the ones I got committed from the customer, but I don’t have a physical order. Right. So let’s say in Fred’s case, he’s got $500,000. That means that between where he is now and the end of the quarter, Fred needs to close another $250,000. But we got to think about for Fred’s case, well, what does he have to work with? What’s the rest of his pipeline, it’s feasible to close inside the board. And if he closed every bit of that, that’d be a ceiling. So in this case, we’re going to say Fred’s got half a million dollars sitting in here is the rest of his pipeline for the quarter. And you could look at it and you can say, that looks pretty good. He’s got, you know, half a million dollars to work with his plans right in the middle of that stretch, likely to hit that number. So that depending on your sales organization, what’s your that’s the thing you have to understand now, the best salespeople I’ve ever worked with. I’ll say the most honest salespeople have a hit rate of about one in three, that’s a pretty darn good hit rate. And so if you say, hey, Fred’s gonna hit one in three, well that’s gonna put red coming up a little short, he’s going to come up somewhere in this $607,000 range on his path, he’s gonna get a third of that. half million dollars. That would be what Fred Sankey, that’s my call. And that’s what as a sales leader, you can start saying okay, correctly, you see your situation you see where you’re likely to end up. Now let’s think about our point. So that takes us to the next step of thinking about things. And this is where a lot of tools now are available that were never there before. What that thinking used to be was the manager and the salesperson person walking through the pipeline and deciding these the deal We’re going to focus. But today, we have a lot of really good artificial intelligence tools available to us, I’d be willing to bet that in this quartz event, there are a number of vendors ready to talk to you with artificial intelligence. And I would strongly encourage you to talk to them. Because what these tools bring to you is predictive analytics that can give so many things to your sales people. Remember that video, we talked about that one way relationship, that one way relationship where the

salesperson gives the tool the tool never gives anything back? Well, this is one of the most important is the tool to give back to the salesperson, the tool to tell the salesperson deals that are most likely to close, where are the deals, that the salesperson should be investing their time, because it’s where the best investment is, most of the time, the salesperson is going to focus on their biggest deals, that’s not necessarily the right once the right instead of one big deal, that might want to focus on three smaller deals, that is a much better change to go close. The other thing is like an analytics tool can tell you hey, if those deals and commit that I think are part of my floor, or silver at risk, what if there’s something that predictive analytics knows are going to be they look at all kinds of variables, I put a few up here on the screen. All these AI tools are have different things they look at. But they’re all things that can inform a predictive score that tells you is this deal really solid? Or is this deal at risk is one of the best things you can do to encourage your salespeople to use their CRM? And then finally do and this is where you got to think about what are the things inside your CRM that you’re using to help the sales people figure out how to close those deals, how to take the actions as a result of that thinks that you just do? Well, the first thing is an area that I like to call path to win. Now the path to win is, what am I do I know the basics of it? Okay, do I know what am i selling? into what application? What’s the commercial situation? Who’s my competition? All those things that are kind of table stakes? But do you put all those things together in your CRM that they’re in one place, you can see them all together? That’s something we did that’s a, you know, change the out of the box. But putting all those things that make up the path for when is there and you start with what’s my situation? That’s kind of the state of play that I’m in. But then you get into the more important things, right? And that there’s three elements that one is one of the milestones and the customers petition process. Do I understand who has to approve things as I go from wherever I am now, to what I’ve got to do? And you start asking that question very specifically, your customer, your sellers, you’re going to find you might be stunned, actually, at how vague their information is that they don’t actually know they know who they’re dealing with, but they don’t know, the person that they’re dealing with, what do they have to go get approval from and who physically has to sign off on things that God gave up? So we call those the milestones, you’ve got to know those miles. The next thing is, do you have a strategy for this bill? What’s the overarching thing you’re trying to push with that customer? That is how you’re going to close it? One way I’ve asked salespeople think about it, if you were suddenly in yellow, with the CEO of that company and had the opportunity to close the deal, right, then get 30 seconds, 40 minutes. That helps you turn it into strategy. And you know, when I think about that strategy, and I think about a lot of things, respond to them. An important note for you to think about your share. You do not want people writing copies or warranties, you want things that are very short, clear, concise, and compelling. And all of these answers. The former CEO of Honeywell, Dave Cody recently wrote a book. And there was a great segment where he talks about, if you can’t say something concisely, you don’t understand. And I thought it was a great point is winning now winning later, highly recommended. The next thing after that was looking at the sales visits. You can use your CRM to make sure those sales are served plan you can build in your basic checklist, we have a really basic checklist. It’s just three questions I want the salesperson to say. And I want him to say it very concisely. What are you trying to accomplish in the sales call? What information do you want to get from the customer the sales visit, and what information you want to hear.

That can be just three sentences, but they need to be thoughtful sentences, and concise sentences. And then after that, I want the salesperson who use the CRM to follow up the actions that they promised the customer and that customer promised them in that meeting. They should be in the CRM. Okay. Then we come to what I think is the most important thing on a deal at any given time. So first thing I look at when I look at a deal is What’s the next actionable step, the salesperson is going to take on a deal. That, to me is the most important thing. And so we’ve got that in a very prominent place there in our in our past when. And then finally is the salesperson engaging the rest of the organization, a lot of salespeople have a tendency to be lone wolves. You don’t want that to be the case, you want them to lean on the rest of the organization, close it. You know, even when salespeople don’t admit it, they never close the deal. by themselves. There’s always a broader organization team that doesn’t do you want to make sure that they’re doing them. And to do all these things. I’ll guarantee you the mechanisms you need to do that are already built in shear, and you just have to choose that you want to use it. And finally, we come to advance. And this is this is probably one of the biggest things that you want to do, because this is a change for you. And it’s about you creating a coaching culture. With your salespeople. It’s about moving into a mode of where you are helping them figure out where they want to go. And one of the most important things that I’ve learned about coaching is the phrase Ask, Don’t Tell. It’s, you know, when you when you’re trying to coach someone on something, they probably already know the answer. But if you use some skillful Socratic question, you can draw that out. And when the words come from their mouth, then they’re totally invested in going and doing that thing. Because they’re the one who said it, you just threw it out, when you’re coaching. Now it takes practice, it takes a lot of work. There’s a number of training companies that do excellent training on this, and I’ll tell you, even if you’re good at it, you can do better. And you get better with practice with the skilled coach of coaching. And I am sure again, at this Court’s event, there’s a number of trading companies that can provide this personally, I’ve worked with a company called gravity strong and does an outstanding job of this. And, but I’m sure that plenty other vendors that are here, they’re just, there’s a lot of good training on this, get the training habit training include coaching other coaches where they, you know, listen to you during coaching and give you some some feedback on it, you’ll find that it is very, very positive. And, you know, the other key thing with coaching is that it is really meant best to be structured. There’s an organization called see the corporate executive board that did a ton of great work on this years ago. And they showed us the biggest thing that sellers want from their bosses, and they feel they don’t get you know, I always say that the single most important thing a salesperson does is make a sales visit. While the single most important thing that a sales manager does is coaches, salespeople. So take a look at your calendar and ask yourself how much of your time you devote to structured coaching in your sales. It might not be as much as you think. But if you’re not spending at least 20% of your time, how can you really be saying, here’s the most important thing that you have to create that coaching culture. And remember, it’s asked. So finally, I want to give you some tips on how you can drive adoption of your CRM tool. What most companies have when they’re sharing tools, compliance, compliance from salespeople knowing that if I fill this stuff in, you’ll leave me alone. But adoption comes when you’re I mentioned earlier, if I took your CRM away, the average sales person would buy me a drink. When you want to get through as adoption, wherever you prefer sharing the way they punch you in the mouth. Because that is integral to how they do their job. And until you get to that point, you’ve got work to do with your CRM. Okay, the first thing is make your design as simple as you can, as your fields you could possibly have. You need to look at all those fields and decide what’s there and then get rid of mandatory fields don’t have complicated processes. Let your operating system be the way that you make sure people are doing the right things for the right reasons. Don’t make the CRM the enforcer of your sales process. Yes, when you talk to yourself focus on that path. That’s the most important thing about a deal. That’s really the thing I care no I think I care about when I look at a deal is I go right to my path, the wind section I read what I want to know and I can tell right away is the thinking on this good.

And then back to the simplifying the design. Question any field in your CRM that does not drag the process? Well remember that 68 fields so they cut down to 25. Most of the fields that were in there were fields that somebody thought work nice. But he had asked the question, how many of those fields actually grow? Yeah, the closing of the deal, how many of them, enable the seller The battle better visualize what it was going to take for them to close that deal. Those are the only fields that should matter. And the rest of them are kind of a luxury. And they’re kind of a useless luxury because most of the time, the data that goes in the fields that the salesperson doesn’t care about, is garbage. So you can sit there and feel like I’ve done all this information, but the data itself is nonsense. But I was working on my first company we had put in a new homegrown CRM. And after a few months of using it, the marketing team was really amazed because it had huge growth in the cement Manufacturing sector. Which was very odd, we thought, but they really want to know how we draw on so much in the cement Manufacturing sector. And given if I was just a live audience, I’d ask you why you think that is? And I’ll tell you the answer. Who’s the person I’m going to pick lists, and it was a mandatory feeling. So when you have a mandatory field, and salesperson doesn’t care about it, they’re just going to click on whatever the easiest thing is to make that mandatory field Get out of the way, and let them do what they want. So disabuse yourself of the notion that mandatory fields are good, they’re actually inherently kind of work against you and your sales people. And on top of the r&d is the data they give you, is meaningless. Finally, if you can take the tool mobile, how do you create something in our case, we ended up calling Siri for sales. I found an incredible company for that called back that AI I’m sure there’s a number of other companies that you can look at, some might be here for its event. But anything that can let you make it very easy for the salesperson to interact with the CRM, on their phone, when the day comes that we’re out making an actual in person visits again, that’ll make a difference. Make it simple. Okay, so in the end, just to finish things up, you know, use the right data to help yourself think about things in terms of that sales wheel because one thing keeps leading to another. And they’re all very things that are very easy to measure, inside. Excellent.

I’d like to thank you for your time today. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us. I wouldn’t be a respectable salesperson myself if I didn’t try to sell you my book. I have published a book a couple years ago that talks about all of these things called Stop Kidding Yourself The Way You’re Managing Your Salespeople Isn’t Helping tThem, and it’s a lot of things I feel very passionately about. If nything I said today is reasoning with you, I think you’ll find more of it inside of the book. Thank you very much, and have a great day.

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